I'm a 75 year old cis-male, explaining (but not excusing) initial reactions to some LGBTQ issues. I embrace all humans, regardless of whether or not they conform to gender expectations. My head, though, engages old thoughts on Iowa's transgender bathroom law. It needs help rationally working through difficult social issues.
I'm a 75 year old cis-male, explaining (but not excusing) initial reactions to some LGBTQ issues. I embrace all humans, regardless of whether or not they conform to gender expectations. My head, though, engages old thoughts on Iowa's transgender bathroom law. It needs help rationally working through difficult social issues.
So, please disavow me of this apparently outdated initial reaction: most cis-gender females are shocked when seeing an outwardly appearing male in their designated private space. Since transgenders are a small minority among us, it is they who should be inconvenienced here.
First, are you a cisgender female in a private space? If not, which you say you are not, then I'm not sure your head's reaction to their experience is what matters here. (Also, I'd say "transgender people," not "transgenders" in the future.)
Second, there are countless other places where you could find answers to this — laid out over many years throughout town halls, PTA meetings, legislative debates, litigation, and detailed in articles and on websites — but, assuming good faith initially here, I would say that — using the example of schools — courts have regularly detailed how the students actually in the restrooms rarely are the ones with any issues. It's adults who find out that a transgender student is in the school and complain. More broadly, and more often than not, trans people in restrooms or other so-called private spaces are as if not more interested in maintaining their privacy while in the space. Litigation details how stalls or subdivided spaces are utilized to maintain privacy. Any disruptions regardless of gender identity, if they would occur, would be handled appropriately.
Finally, I think your use of "inconvenienced" is worth reflection. One, you just read — I hope — a piece about a proposed criminal law; this is not a matter of inconvenience. Two, often the impact of these bills would effectively bar trans people from those spaces. Should a trans woman presenting as a women but nonetheless barred from the women's restroom at City Hall under this law go into the men's restroom? Trust that a non-sex-segregated restroom will be there? Trust that she won't need to use the restroom? Or, stay home? Three, maybe we should all think a bit harder about why so much time and effort is being put into restricting the rights of a "small minority," as you say, to go about their lives.
I plead guilty to your charge of being lazy. In hindsight, I could probably do some private research and get a wealth of answers. Please don't mistake my laziness for a lack of good faith.
This thought now strikes me. Many of us older folks are confronting a new culture, and I strongly suspect that my initial thoughts are widespread. Perhaps there's something to learn from my "stupid question."
I don't think I'm alone in having trouble using the proper terminology in a lot of emerging social issues.
Would you prefer that I delete my question? How do I do that?
I definitely didn't call it a stupid question, to be clear. I just think, as you note, that it's a question that an answer could be found for a lot easier than by hoping for a response to a comment on a story. And, if I didn't think there was a likelihood of good faith in your question, I wouldn't have spent the time responding to it.
As to the terminology, understood. That's why I just noted it in parentheses.
I don't think you need to delete — especially now that we've both discussed a lot in it. Maybe, as you said, there will be something for someone else in it.
I'm another "old brain" (61, cis white male) but I'll offer a different take on "confronting a new culture".
I've been fortunate enough to have trans friends and colleagues for over half my life -- over three decades -- so this isn't really "new" culture. Transgender people have lived quietly amongst us for pretty much all time -- and like everyone else, they just want to get on with their lives the best they can and not get picked on for being "different".
What's "new" is the right-wing focus on trans issues and the attendant media coverage around this "outrage". Trans folk using the restrooms and changing rooms and everything else that best matches their identity and presentation has been happening for many, many decades -- and nothing bad happened! No one caused a fuss -- mostly, no one even noticed. The vast majority of cis folk probably didn't know trans people existed and, if asked, would have said they'd never met one.
This was the case for LGB folks for many decades too -- until they became the focus of hostility and finally, after years of campaigning and activism and legislative efforts around the world, got some level of acceptance. The majority of people (at least in the West) are supportive of LGB folks these days and the right-wing outrage machine is no longer as effective when trying to target them... so they've moved on to a smaller subset of "others" and blown the issue up out of all proportion to the number of actual trans people out there.
I've been an "out" bisexual for over 40 years at this point: I came out at university in England where LGBT folks were much more accepted back then than in America. Unfortunately, over the last couple of decades (since I emigrated to California), I've seen anti-trans sentiment steadily rise in my former home country and it breaks my heart to see what my friends there are having to deal with these days.
I truly hope we'll see the pendulum swing back toward tolerance and acceptance, and soon.
As a cis gender woman I have had to spend my life with a vigilance that cis gender men do not face. Being in a public bathroom with other women who are trans is not one of them. It is hard for me to watch my non-binary young adult child struggle with where to go to the bathroom when we are out together. Really if folks are concerned about women's safety, gun laws, reproductive freedom protections, the equal rights amendment, social safety net etc. would be much appreciated.
47 year old trans woman here. If it helps, I might try to add a little perspective based on my own experience. I currently live in a jurisdiction where trans people are given a lot of discretion to decide which bathroom we use, and it might be helpful to say something about what that is actually like.
When I first started transitioning about 10 years ago I used the men’s bathroom because when most people looked at me, they saw a man. It was safest and least inconvenient for everyone that I did so. After a few years though, my appearance had changed so much that everyone seeing me would automatically assume I’m a woman. I was slow at realising that this shift had happened and so for a while there I was using the men’s room while appearing female. What would happen almost always is that it caused conflict: men would ask me to leave, other women would sometimes follow me into the men’s (because in real life we often don’t look at signage and instead follow other people based on perceived gender) and then they would get annoyed at me. It happened so often that it forced me to use the womens purely to accommodate other peoples expectations. I was able to do this precisely because the law (in my jurisdiction) is flexible about how trans people use bathrooms.
Now consider what happens to me if I were in Utah under these laws. I don’t have the documentation that would constitute a legal defence, so now my choices are (a) use the men’s room and cause conflict every time, publicly outing myself every time I use the bathroom and opening up risk of violence (because yes, that does happen sometimes), (b) use the women’s and risk a criminal charge if I’m “caught”, or (c) no longer go out in public in Utah. In practice, the purpose of this legislation is to force trans people to make choice (c). In other words, this isn’t a mere “inconvenience” for us, it’s a blunt instrument to force us out of the public sphere.
Speaking as a cisgender female, I've actually used men's restrooms in a pinch. In fact a bunch of us used one in a night club because the line for the lady's room was too long. No one cared🤷♀️ Though the men were caught off guard after having their bathroom overtaken 🤣 Oh, and THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING PREVENTING A MAN WITH BAD INTENTIONS FROM HIDING IN THE LADY'S ROOM NOW. Funny how no one ever points that out🤔
I'm a 75 year old cis-male, explaining (but not excusing) initial reactions to some LGBTQ issues. I embrace all humans, regardless of whether or not they conform to gender expectations. My head, though, engages old thoughts on Iowa's transgender bathroom law. It needs help rationally working through difficult social issues.
So, please disavow me of this apparently outdated initial reaction: most cis-gender females are shocked when seeing an outwardly appearing male in their designated private space. Since transgenders are a small minority among us, it is they who should be inconvenienced here.
First, are you a cisgender female in a private space? If not, which you say you are not, then I'm not sure your head's reaction to their experience is what matters here. (Also, I'd say "transgender people," not "transgenders" in the future.)
Second, there are countless other places where you could find answers to this — laid out over many years throughout town halls, PTA meetings, legislative debates, litigation, and detailed in articles and on websites — but, assuming good faith initially here, I would say that — using the example of schools — courts have regularly detailed how the students actually in the restrooms rarely are the ones with any issues. It's adults who find out that a transgender student is in the school and complain. More broadly, and more often than not, trans people in restrooms or other so-called private spaces are as if not more interested in maintaining their privacy while in the space. Litigation details how stalls or subdivided spaces are utilized to maintain privacy. Any disruptions regardless of gender identity, if they would occur, would be handled appropriately.
Finally, I think your use of "inconvenienced" is worth reflection. One, you just read — I hope — a piece about a proposed criminal law; this is not a matter of inconvenience. Two, often the impact of these bills would effectively bar trans people from those spaces. Should a trans woman presenting as a women but nonetheless barred from the women's restroom at City Hall under this law go into the men's restroom? Trust that a non-sex-segregated restroom will be there? Trust that she won't need to use the restroom? Or, stay home? Three, maybe we should all think a bit harder about why so much time and effort is being put into restricting the rights of a "small minority," as you say, to go about their lives.
Chris,
I can't thank you enough. I think you have an amazing mind. Thank you for sharing your truth with all of your readers and subscribers.
Thanks for your thoughtful and respectful reply.
I plead guilty to your charge of being lazy. In hindsight, I could probably do some private research and get a wealth of answers. Please don't mistake my laziness for a lack of good faith.
This thought now strikes me. Many of us older folks are confronting a new culture, and I strongly suspect that my initial thoughts are widespread. Perhaps there's something to learn from my "stupid question."
I don't think I'm alone in having trouble using the proper terminology in a lot of emerging social issues.
Would you prefer that I delete my question? How do I do that?
I definitely didn't call it a stupid question, to be clear. I just think, as you note, that it's a question that an answer could be found for a lot easier than by hoping for a response to a comment on a story. And, if I didn't think there was a likelihood of good faith in your question, I wouldn't have spent the time responding to it.
As to the terminology, understood. That's why I just noted it in parentheses.
I don't think you need to delete — especially now that we've both discussed a lot in it. Maybe, as you said, there will be something for someone else in it.
I'm another "old brain" (61, cis white male) but I'll offer a different take on "confronting a new culture".
I've been fortunate enough to have trans friends and colleagues for over half my life -- over three decades -- so this isn't really "new" culture. Transgender people have lived quietly amongst us for pretty much all time -- and like everyone else, they just want to get on with their lives the best they can and not get picked on for being "different".
What's "new" is the right-wing focus on trans issues and the attendant media coverage around this "outrage". Trans folk using the restrooms and changing rooms and everything else that best matches their identity and presentation has been happening for many, many decades -- and nothing bad happened! No one caused a fuss -- mostly, no one even noticed. The vast majority of cis folk probably didn't know trans people existed and, if asked, would have said they'd never met one.
This was the case for LGB folks for many decades too -- until they became the focus of hostility and finally, after years of campaigning and activism and legislative efforts around the world, got some level of acceptance. The majority of people (at least in the West) are supportive of LGB folks these days and the right-wing outrage machine is no longer as effective when trying to target them... so they've moved on to a smaller subset of "others" and blown the issue up out of all proportion to the number of actual trans people out there.
I've been an "out" bisexual for over 40 years at this point: I came out at university in England where LGBT folks were much more accepted back then than in America. Unfortunately, over the last couple of decades (since I emigrated to California), I've seen anti-trans sentiment steadily rise in my former home country and it breaks my heart to see what my friends there are having to deal with these days.
I truly hope we'll see the pendulum swing back toward tolerance and acceptance, and soon.
Hope that provides some useful context, Clarence?
As a cis gender woman I have had to spend my life with a vigilance that cis gender men do not face. Being in a public bathroom with other women who are trans is not one of them. It is hard for me to watch my non-binary young adult child struggle with where to go to the bathroom when we are out together. Really if folks are concerned about women's safety, gun laws, reproductive freedom protections, the equal rights amendment, social safety net etc. would be much appreciated.
Hi Clarence,
47 year old trans woman here. If it helps, I might try to add a little perspective based on my own experience. I currently live in a jurisdiction where trans people are given a lot of discretion to decide which bathroom we use, and it might be helpful to say something about what that is actually like.
When I first started transitioning about 10 years ago I used the men’s bathroom because when most people looked at me, they saw a man. It was safest and least inconvenient for everyone that I did so. After a few years though, my appearance had changed so much that everyone seeing me would automatically assume I’m a woman. I was slow at realising that this shift had happened and so for a while there I was using the men’s room while appearing female. What would happen almost always is that it caused conflict: men would ask me to leave, other women would sometimes follow me into the men’s (because in real life we often don’t look at signage and instead follow other people based on perceived gender) and then they would get annoyed at me. It happened so often that it forced me to use the womens purely to accommodate other peoples expectations. I was able to do this precisely because the law (in my jurisdiction) is flexible about how trans people use bathrooms.
Now consider what happens to me if I were in Utah under these laws. I don’t have the documentation that would constitute a legal defence, so now my choices are (a) use the men’s room and cause conflict every time, publicly outing myself every time I use the bathroom and opening up risk of violence (because yes, that does happen sometimes), (b) use the women’s and risk a criminal charge if I’m “caught”, or (c) no longer go out in public in Utah. In practice, the purpose of this legislation is to force trans people to make choice (c). In other words, this isn’t a mere “inconvenience” for us, it’s a blunt instrument to force us out of the public sphere.
Speaking as a cisgender female, I've actually used men's restrooms in a pinch. In fact a bunch of us used one in a night club because the line for the lady's room was too long. No one cared🤷♀️ Though the men were caught off guard after having their bathroom overtaken 🤣 Oh, and THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING PREVENTING A MAN WITH BAD INTENTIONS FROM HIDING IN THE LADY'S ROOM NOW. Funny how no one ever points that out🤔