What Sutton and other judges don't take into consideration, is that hormonal and surgical treatments for sexual dysphoria have been in place for years, for teens as well as adults, and NO state or local government had taken upon itself to legislate bans against these medically sanctioned and approved treatments. Only the past 2-3 years have we seen Red state legislators work themselves up into a fury over not only medically supervised transgender rectification, but also a hysterical animadversion directed toward the transgender themselves, with memes such as "the transgender agenda" - whatever the hell THAT means - demeaning them and even criminalizing their families and their medical teams with their shitty, cruel laws.
Settled medical judgments and treatments don't NEED "sorting out" by "accountable public officials"...I mean, we're not talking about Nazi "eugenics" or Mengele concentration-camp experiments, for god's sake...what is wrong with these judges who endorse state intervention into private medical decisions?? That's the crime, full stop.
Actually, aren't we indeed on the edge of Nazi "eugenics?" The extension of hatred to denying medical care pulls us way closer than we have been. The places that go beyond "protecting children" by causing them pain, on into doing the same to adults, should be truly terrifying us.
What is it that scares so many about transgender people? How are such terrified folks personally hurt by their existence? Do they have a higher crime rate? Has an actual transgender woman EVER raped a woman in the restroom? Do they cast spells that ruin the crops? Are they a secret cabal that runs the economy? Are they planning to gain power and force everyone to switch sexes? There is clearly no long history of treating them as less than human because that was how you justified an economic (plantation) system. If you are a Christian who thinks they are sinful, why not let them just end up in Hell, like adulterers or masturbators or whatever?
Because if we start denying medical care on the basis of sin--so long, treatment for STDs. Insulin is absolutely not mentioned in the Bible--why should diabetics get it? Why should bigamists be allowed health insurance?
But there are LOTS of diabetics and bigamists, adulterers and masturbators. Basically, transgender folk are "safe" people to hate. Can't hate other races, or Jews, or other traditional targets (though those are way more OK now than they were 10 years ago.) So choose a small group and let the animus fly, to the point of perhaps actually killing them by denying them care they need. What is killing off an Other to preserve the "purity" of the rest of society anything but "eugenics."
I liken them more to the Pharisees of the Bible -- the ones that were great at following form and letter of the 613 laws of the Old Testament but totally missing the spirit. Jesus came along to say they were in error and the two greatest commandments are to love God above all else, and to love one another. If an action doesn't fit through that sieve, it's not truly of God and Jesus.
In other words, the anti-trans, anti-LGBTQ crap is completely antithetical of Jesus of the Gospels.
It's comforting that you have found a rationality that's not hurtful to the lgbtq. And I'm sorry you had to bring up religious particulars because now I have to respond about religious particulars.
Matt 5:17-19 says: Not a single Old Testament law can be ignored or annulled.
Spirit of the law doesn't have anything to do with it. Jesus came to fulfill the Jewish law. He said so. Remember? He was a Jew. And he wanted to add a few twists regarding heaven and hell. He also threatened all humanity that didn't want to go along with him as a Jew. He came with a sword!
So, if you're a Chinese Buddhist, you can go to hell unless you give it up, according to Jesus and the Abrahamic God.
Paul broke Jesus' commandment above to tell the Gentiles that found Jesus view of eternity to be attractive to ignore the words of Jesus so that they would not have to convert to Judaism but to worship Jesus, regardless. This exception creates Paulianity, not Christianity. Only Christian Jews are Christian and they must follow the Old Testament laws. Paulianity fails because the Paulian compilers brought The Old Testament along and didn't start over. Contrary to your source, Jesus didn't rebuke the Old Testament errors.
And all those people were tribal, including Jesus.
The Bible is a logical mess.
The God of the Abrahamic Bible has a far worse morality than most of us today.
To love an Abrahamic/updated so-called Christian God very few of us can identify with except by suspending our thinking abilities doesn't make sense to critical thinkers.
Check out this Mindshift episode on YouTube that deals with morality.
God's Hypocrisy: The Case Against Objective Morality
More accommodating to believers is professional New Testament Biblical academic skeptic Bart Ehrman on YouTube: Can Christians Study the New Testament Honestly?
Medical decisions should be between the patient & their physician. Legislators & judges are not qualified to decide these matters, & they should not make ignorant laws that interfere with the necessary health care of all people.
The idea that no animus drove the passage of these laws because they apply only to transgender persons under 17 is laughable, pitiable and false: "we know we cannot limit the choice of fully legal adults regarding their own medical care (absent a fetus in play) but we can direct our hatred to these youngsters whose parents appear to be caring for them."
Animus played a very large role in the Prop 8 trial. I hope it continues to rear its head in these cases as well. You can't make laws against people you've said you hate.
I think this is generally germane. Anyway, I saw someone cite Judge Sutton and note how he remembered "conservatives" speaking about judicial humility. But, conservative judges are rarely consistently humble. And, humility and blindness are two different things.
There are narrow issues in this area where there might be room for reasonable disagreement. This is not same sex marriage. This is more like state constitutional amendments that targeted same sex couples even in non-marriage relationships. It is clear targeted discrimination.
I agree that Judge White's dissent is excellent. It's as good an appellate-level distillation of the issues involved as Judge Marks's decision was a trial-court-level distillation. You can also *feel* her frustration with Sutton's decision to pretend his arrogance is humility.
The fact that our judicial system is abdicating it's single-most important responsibility to uphold and protect the basic fundamental rights of minority populations, such as the right to personhood and self-determination, should give every American pause. By asserting that compromises can be made on the humanity of transgender people and that we should respect the democratic processes surrounding this "issue," Judge Sutton is directly engaging with the "transgender question" being advanced on the right. And if this is what our judicial system is willing to tolerate, our democracy will not survive.
Sutton is smarter than most GOP appointed judges but he still feels the pull of FedSoc approval for a potential SCOTUS seat or at least some nice perks. Hence, “thoughtful debate.” By that standard, Mengele was just doing medical research.
To say that gender identities aren’t discrete classes is absurd. Gender identity is just as immutable as other protected characteristics, and why they seem to think it has to be readily apparent at birth is beyond me.
Not to mention the complete lack of consideration for evidence supporting the provision of the care. The state clearly lacks pertinent interest depriving youth of this care.
The targeting of groups and using the power of office to single out people IS ILLEGAL. It’s a HATE CRIME. Practicing medicine without a license or practicing medicine without consultation of medical experts IS ILLEGAL. As if it would be helpful . . . These fascist republicans should review capricious decisions that led up to the Magna Carta. . ... but they are FASCISTS: Authoritarians who actually serve their Neo nazi Billionaire Handlers. The RNC operates as a CRIME SYNDICATE, and there needs to be accountability. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the-idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1/
No, Kyle. You are welcome to share your views on your newsletter. You have, instead, drafted two extremely anti-trans screeds and posted them on my space. I am not going to go through and refute clear propaganda when I, lawyers arguing cases, medical experts in those cases, and judges deciding those cases have done so previously.
You are misstating the position of the UK. There is a process for trans kids to continue to gain the treatment they need -- it just goes through a longer protocol. Something that American pro-gender affirming care treating doctors support as well, to avoid the slap-dash quick prescription writing without due care of the individual child in each case.
Here in Texas the legislature was offered the following process to allow our children to still get the care they need:
2 therapist referrals
1 family doctor referral
1 state board approval
-- there were 5 steps so I'm forgetting one of them -- but passionately offered by Ann Jordan on the floor of the Texas lege and they still voted banning gender affirming care and mandating that kids already under treatment were to be expeditiously weaned off.
Clearly, it was not about protecting the kids. It was about punishing a group for being different and applying bigotry instead of compassion, understanding, and medical experience.
What Sutton and other judges don't take into consideration, is that hormonal and surgical treatments for sexual dysphoria have been in place for years, for teens as well as adults, and NO state or local government had taken upon itself to legislate bans against these medically sanctioned and approved treatments. Only the past 2-3 years have we seen Red state legislators work themselves up into a fury over not only medically supervised transgender rectification, but also a hysterical animadversion directed toward the transgender themselves, with memes such as "the transgender agenda" - whatever the hell THAT means - demeaning them and even criminalizing their families and their medical teams with their shitty, cruel laws.
Settled medical judgments and treatments don't NEED "sorting out" by "accountable public officials"...I mean, we're not talking about Nazi "eugenics" or Mengele concentration-camp experiments, for god's sake...what is wrong with these judges who endorse state intervention into private medical decisions?? That's the crime, full stop.
Actually, aren't we indeed on the edge of Nazi "eugenics?" The extension of hatred to denying medical care pulls us way closer than we have been. The places that go beyond "protecting children" by causing them pain, on into doing the same to adults, should be truly terrifying us.
What is it that scares so many about transgender people? How are such terrified folks personally hurt by their existence? Do they have a higher crime rate? Has an actual transgender woman EVER raped a woman in the restroom? Do they cast spells that ruin the crops? Are they a secret cabal that runs the economy? Are they planning to gain power and force everyone to switch sexes? There is clearly no long history of treating them as less than human because that was how you justified an economic (plantation) system. If you are a Christian who thinks they are sinful, why not let them just end up in Hell, like adulterers or masturbators or whatever?
Because if we start denying medical care on the basis of sin--so long, treatment for STDs. Insulin is absolutely not mentioned in the Bible--why should diabetics get it? Why should bigamists be allowed health insurance?
But there are LOTS of diabetics and bigamists, adulterers and masturbators. Basically, transgender folk are "safe" people to hate. Can't hate other races, or Jews, or other traditional targets (though those are way more OK now than they were 10 years ago.) So choose a small group and let the animus fly, to the point of perhaps actually killing them by denying them care they need. What is killing off an Other to preserve the "purity" of the rest of society anything but "eugenics."
They’re secular robe wearing Christians?
I liken them more to the Pharisees of the Bible -- the ones that were great at following form and letter of the 613 laws of the Old Testament but totally missing the spirit. Jesus came along to say they were in error and the two greatest commandments are to love God above all else, and to love one another. If an action doesn't fit through that sieve, it's not truly of God and Jesus.
In other words, the anti-trans, anti-LGBTQ crap is completely antithetical of Jesus of the Gospels.
It's comforting that you have found a rationality that's not hurtful to the lgbtq. And I'm sorry you had to bring up religious particulars because now I have to respond about religious particulars.
Matt 5:17-19 says: Not a single Old Testament law can be ignored or annulled.
Spirit of the law doesn't have anything to do with it. Jesus came to fulfill the Jewish law. He said so. Remember? He was a Jew. And he wanted to add a few twists regarding heaven and hell. He also threatened all humanity that didn't want to go along with him as a Jew. He came with a sword!
So, if you're a Chinese Buddhist, you can go to hell unless you give it up, according to Jesus and the Abrahamic God.
Paul broke Jesus' commandment above to tell the Gentiles that found Jesus view of eternity to be attractive to ignore the words of Jesus so that they would not have to convert to Judaism but to worship Jesus, regardless. This exception creates Paulianity, not Christianity. Only Christian Jews are Christian and they must follow the Old Testament laws. Paulianity fails because the Paulian compilers brought The Old Testament along and didn't start over. Contrary to your source, Jesus didn't rebuke the Old Testament errors.
And all those people were tribal, including Jesus.
The Bible is a logical mess.
The God of the Abrahamic Bible has a far worse morality than most of us today.
To love an Abrahamic/updated so-called Christian God very few of us can identify with except by suspending our thinking abilities doesn't make sense to critical thinkers.
Check out this Mindshift episode on YouTube that deals with morality.
God's Hypocrisy: The Case Against Objective Morality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pdYmIwxYTE
More accommodating to believers is professional New Testament Biblical academic skeptic Bart Ehrman on YouTube: Can Christians Study the New Testament Honestly?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSf_ERHCEwI&t=264s
And then, if you'd like to explore this mythical development which rose to serve the powers of kings, check out Mythvision Podcasts on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWVCimOe67LOfyi9PjUeGgA
Of course, there's more, but that's where my attention has been lately.
Cheers,
Amelie
Medical decisions should be between the patient & their physician. Legislators & judges are not qualified to decide these matters, & they should not make ignorant laws that interfere with the necessary health care of all people.
I don't know if this makes me more sad or more angry, but it certainly makes me something.
Thank you for keeping us updated on these issues.
It makes me mad at the judges and sad for transgender people who are being targeted.
That sums it up well.
I forgot discouraged, also.
The idea that no animus drove the passage of these laws because they apply only to transgender persons under 17 is laughable, pitiable and false: "we know we cannot limit the choice of fully legal adults regarding their own medical care (absent a fetus in play) but we can direct our hatred to these youngsters whose parents appear to be caring for them."
Animus played a very large role in the Prop 8 trial. I hope it continues to rear its head in these cases as well. You can't make laws against people you've said you hate.
I was pleased to see this: "Michigan Supreme Court Adopts New Rule Requiring Use of Preferred Pronouns, or Respectful Alternative"
The concurrences and dissents are informative. http://religionclause.blogspot.com/2023/09/michigan-supreme-court-adopts-new-rule.html
I think this is generally germane. Anyway, I saw someone cite Judge Sutton and note how he remembered "conservatives" speaking about judicial humility. But, conservative judges are rarely consistently humble. And, humility and blindness are two different things.
There are narrow issues in this area where there might be room for reasonable disagreement. This is not same sex marriage. This is more like state constitutional amendments that targeted same sex couples even in non-marriage relationships. It is clear targeted discrimination.
(My last comment called to mind Judge Sutton not going along with other courts pre-Obergefell.)
No idea how I missed this. This is awesome to see
OK, all, I tried deleting his most inflammatory posts, but that wasn't working, so Kyle is banned.
How are people formally diagnosed with a condition defined in DSM-5 not a discrete group? This is simply disingenuous.
I agree that Judge White's dissent is excellent. It's as good an appellate-level distillation of the issues involved as Judge Marks's decision was a trial-court-level distillation. You can also *feel* her frustration with Sutton's decision to pretend his arrogance is humility.
Chris,
Thank you so very much. Judge Sutton has the depth of a Santa Cruz Banana Slug and the mental height of it’s slime trail.
The fact that our judicial system is abdicating it's single-most important responsibility to uphold and protect the basic fundamental rights of minority populations, such as the right to personhood and self-determination, should give every American pause. By asserting that compromises can be made on the humanity of transgender people and that we should respect the democratic processes surrounding this "issue," Judge Sutton is directly engaging with the "transgender question" being advanced on the right. And if this is what our judicial system is willing to tolerate, our democracy will not survive.
Sutton is smarter than most GOP appointed judges but he still feels the pull of FedSoc approval for a potential SCOTUS seat or at least some nice perks. Hence, “thoughtful debate.” By that standard, Mengele was just doing medical research.
To say that gender identities aren’t discrete classes is absurd. Gender identity is just as immutable as other protected characteristics, and why they seem to think it has to be readily apparent at birth is beyond me.
Not to mention the complete lack of consideration for evidence supporting the provision of the care. The state clearly lacks pertinent interest depriving youth of this care.
The targeting of groups and using the power of office to single out people IS ILLEGAL. It’s a HATE CRIME. Practicing medicine without a license or practicing medicine without consultation of medical experts IS ILLEGAL. As if it would be helpful . . . These fascist republicans should review capricious decisions that led up to the Magna Carta. . ... but they are FASCISTS: Authoritarians who actually serve their Neo nazi Billionaire Handlers. The RNC operates as a CRIME SYNDICATE, and there needs to be accountability. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the-idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1/
You should review footnote 4 of carolene maybe it will hedge your disdain for the legislature, the most important bodies of our government
Lol. Thanks for weighing in, Jordan.
Kyle, you have your own space. I'm not allowing these anti-trans mini-posts here.
No, Kyle. You are welcome to share your views on your newsletter. You have, instead, drafted two extremely anti-trans screeds and posted them on my space. I am not going to go through and refute clear propaganda when I, lawyers arguing cases, medical experts in those cases, and judges deciding those cases have done so previously.
No, you've not accurately portrayed any of those countries' policies. Have a good day; I'm done spending my time on this discussion with you.
You are misstating the position of the UK. There is a process for trans kids to continue to gain the treatment they need -- it just goes through a longer protocol. Something that American pro-gender affirming care treating doctors support as well, to avoid the slap-dash quick prescription writing without due care of the individual child in each case.
Here in Texas the legislature was offered the following process to allow our children to still get the care they need:
2 therapist referrals
1 family doctor referral
1 state board approval
-- there were 5 steps so I'm forgetting one of them -- but passionately offered by Ann Jordan on the floor of the Texas lege and they still voted banning gender affirming care and mandating that kids already under treatment were to be expeditiously weaned off.
Clearly, it was not about protecting the kids. It was about punishing a group for being different and applying bigotry instead of compassion, understanding, and medical experience.