51 Comments
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Janet Bergamo's avatar

Trump is committing war crimes against Iran; he must be stopped immediately, and impeached NOW!

Sioux Fleming's avatar

Chris, thank you for saying what so many are thinking. I’m wondering something. If such a proceeding were to start, is there something in the amendment that would stop Trump from firing the members of his cabinet who were involved?

Brianna Seabury's avatar

So: per the 25th, the VP and a majority of cabinet heads all need to agree the president is unfit for duty. That's Vance plus a majority of the following:

- Gabbard (DNI)

- Hegseth (DoD)

- Bessent (Treasury)

- Burgum (Interior)

- Chavez-DeRemer (Transportation)

- Collins (VA)

- Duffy (Transportation)

- Greer (Trade Rep)

- Kennedy (HHS)

- Loeffler (SBA)

- Lutnick (Commerce)

- McMahon (Education)

- Rollins (Agriculture)

- Rubio (State)

- Turner (HUD)

- Vought (budget)

- Wright (Energy)

- Zeldin (EPA

I'm not sure about all those names, but they're all listed as cabinet members and I know for a fact that they haven't yet been fired. Mullin (Homeland Security) and whoever's gonna replace Bondi don't count until confirmed by Congress.

So that's about eighteen people, ten of whom need to vote "yes" on invoking the 25th. Let's say Vance gets his 10 organized. They send a letter to Congress: "Trump can't do his job anymore. We're taking over."

Trump hears about this. He sends his own letter: "Actually, I'm fine. Give me back control." He then starts frantically trying to fire anyone who wants him 25th'd.

Vance and the cabinet send another letter in. "No, he can't do his job. Meet and sort it out."

It would almost certainly go to the Supreme Court, as this has never been done before.

Cissna, Ken's avatar

I don’t see a majority of those sycophantic cabinet members voting to remove trump. Not going to happen. However much it is deserved and appropriate and necessary.

DemocracyMustWin's avatar

What a list of co-conspirators! Better: Conviction of TREASON could implicate and potentially remove the whole lot.

J Thomas's avatar

Do you know how many of TRUMP’s cabinet would vote oust him? Hint: the answer is zero.

salem's avatar

exactly, the gall to act like this is the most immediate solution is sadly comical. in what world are we living in to have witnessed the rise and re election of trump, the depravity of the system laid bare, and believe jd fucking vance is gonna save us?? like oh my god i promise the ultimate adherence to bureaucracy and structure, in the stage where the structure is intentionally being spit on as obviously as possible, is in fact not the fastest way to end things. we are rotten to the core

Brianna Seabury's avatar

I understand what you mean, but I disagree.

Invocation of the 25th is the sane and sensible thing to do. Our Constitution does have guardrails to prevent tyrants. The Cabinet is obligated to use it, even if their motivation is nothing more than self-preservation.

But if they fail to do so- and I would not be surprised if this happens- There are other routes to remove Trump from power.

Unfortunately, none that I can think of are legal OR peaceful. I deseprately hope that we will not need to come to that. A house divided against itself cannot stand.

Articles like these are still important. They remind our leaders of the obligation they carry, AND they remind the public that failure to do so should have consequences. Legal or otherwise.

MarshaS's avatar

Exactly my point. This is living in the real world; this will never happen. Better to neuter him by Dems taking back Congress this year.

Chris Geidner's avatar

This was not presented as a solution; it is the reality. It is a possibility, and, as the piece points out repeatedly, this is the best solution — outside of the actors involved — for when a “now” problem that requires an “immediate” solution. The other possibilities take more time; heck, you’re looking to the election. That’s seven months off, and they don’t take office for another two after that.

MarshaS's avatar

I want him gone ASAP too. I want him indicted for all his many crimes. This is exactly why the 25th Amendment was written. Look at the Cabinet members, Vance, the House GOP members. They will not invoke the 25th Amendment. It assumed morals and values, honor, that no longer exist in Maga world. Mealy-mouthed Speaker won't even convene an emergency meeting of the House. House GOP voted in support of Trump's war. The only way we crawl out of this well is through the courts and the election.

User's avatar
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Apr 7
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salem's avatar

so what are you guys gonna do when he just starts openly killing political dissenters, likely beginning with his own administration. am i supposed to believe this isn't going to happen the same way it has always happened?

MarshaS's avatar

He'll try. He won't abide by the whole 'acting President' thing. This will wind up in the courts where he'll delay delay delay.

Micah S.'s avatar

It won't happen. It wouldn't even happen if he were face down in a bowl of soup, the intended use for the 25th. It doubly won't happen when he is conscious and able to object, since that would require 2/3rds of both houses of Congress. It triply won't happen because the people who would initiate it are deliberately selected to be the kind of people who wear shoes that are too big to please him. We aren't going to be saved. They just introduced articles of impeachment, much easier to do than the 25th. That also won't happen.

Chris Geidner's avatar

I mention impeachment, but it is not immediate. As for whether it will happen or not, that does not bear on whether it should (or even must) happen.

Christopher Sheahen's avatar

Of course it should happen. But our country is so polarized that party loyalty overrides the concept of doing the right thing for the good of all. I’m convinced no Republican legislator will ever cast a vote against Trump. None of those people have any courage.

Fisher's avatar

polarized my ass. people will literally be dancing in the streets. from nyc to birmingham to pocatello idaho.

Elisabeth Nolet's avatar

Hilary was so rich when she said that his man was not fit to be Commander in Chief. Nobody took her seriously. Now we're all paying the price of not trusting the judgement of a competent, experienced, level-headed and resilient woman.

Christopher Sheahen's avatar

I appreciate your opinions, but at this point, the Amendment is a dead letter. A cabinet filled with loyalists will never take power away from Trump. Impeachment is also not an option. This is a sad time for our country.

Joeff's avatar

Why people have such faith in 25th, which takes MORE votes than impeachment/removal is beyond me.

igor isa🤘⚧️'s avatar

URGENT! Please CALL CONGRESS & WH TODAY to oppose the insanity of drümpf’s “premeditated war crimes”. you can use @Raven’s concise & powerful script linked below. in addition to your own senators & rep, you can also talk to Jefferies, Schumer, Thune or squeaker of the house, as they all rep national coalitions. Or so I been told, & will verify today myself! Tip: block your caller ID by dialing congress as follows: *672022243121 (ya, i know: just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you 😱)

https://substack.com/@leandra525/note/c-239607672?r=60kbqc&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=notes-share-action

https://substack.com/@leandra525/note/c-239607672?r=60kbqc&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=notes-share-action

Kevin Leonard's avatar

The idea that J. D. Vance, or any of the children in his cabinet will vote to implement the 25th Amendment is absurd on its face. Even Kristi Noem and Pan Bondi know that!

Jewels Seuss's avatar

Funny, if anyone else were to post this on social media, the (past) FBI or sim. would be at their doorstep.

David J. Sharp's avatar

Couldn’t agree more!

Cathy Cassels's avatar

It seems the Republicans in Congress are stuck like glue & don’t take Trumps dangerous rhetoric seriously at all . . . I fear that until he actually DOES something vile, like deploy a nuclear weapon or intentionally target & kill innocent Iranian civilians, they’ll just write it off as “Trump being Trump” . . . actually preventing a vile act doesn’t appear to be in the cards . . . 😢🤷‍♀️

Sean Corfield's avatar

He already killed a bunch of children and teachers in Iran -- and I don't recall any Republicans seeming very concerned about that. At this point, I don't know what it would take...

Cathy Cassels's avatar

They thought that strike on the school was an honest targeting mistake - it wasn’t “intentional” . . . I’ll never understand their blind loyalty to that corrupt moron, not as long as I live . . .

Richda D McNutt's avatar

We are at a pivotal moment in our nation's life - which will determine how much life our country has left.

Diane Saunders's avatar

I don't believe the Cabinet has the courage to do what is right. And J.D. Vance is a whimp who admires his boss and would never do something like invoke the 25th Amendment. Vance wouldn't be any better of a President, so there we are, stuck with this situation of total incompetence and ideological crap. The damage this man has done to this country will take a long time to rectify. Maybe more than a decade. It is sad to see what this country has become. Jeff Daniels was right.

J Thomas's avatar

Vice President J.D. Vance has a moral, ethical, and constitutional obligation to invoke Section 4 of the Twenty-Fifth Ame

Paul's avatar

This feels like blatant propaganda targeting Donald Trump because some people are afraid of what might be exposed about corruption and the direction society is heading. In the end, attempts to manipulate public perception will only backfire.

Cicero's avatar

I don't see this ever happening. I also don't see him being removed from office.

As a side note, its worth being reminded that despite all the parade of horribles that Trump has done this last year, that he is STILL more popular than the Democratic Party.

He might still lose massively in the midterms, but if the goal isn't to then fumble that away to allow Vance to win in 2028 (as the Dems did in the Biden admin) ... The Anti-Trump coalition needs to figure out how to return to normalcy and govern like adults.

These sorts of pipe dreams don't get the coalition there.